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	<title>Comments on: Dealing With Friends and Family Who Don&#8217;t Get It</title>
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	<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/</link>
	<description>The Free Agents Network</description>
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		<title>By: wbertrand</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1299</link>
		<dc:creator>wbertrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 04:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-1299</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul. Thanks for the instructive and thought-provoking piece. We discussed it recently on Complete Liberty Podcast episode 82:
http://completeliberty.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=523974

In regard to some of the comments here, believers in freedom shouldn&#039;t accept the label &quot;crazy,&quot; because that would imply that people&#039;s belief in aggression via government (the default position in our culture) is actually sane. Institutionalized unjust coercion is the antithesis of reason.

Cheers,
Wes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Paul. Thanks for the instructive and thought-provoking piece. We discussed it recently on Complete Liberty Podcast episode 82:<br />
<a href="http://completeliberty.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=523974" rel="nofollow">http://completeliberty.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=523974</a></p>
<p>In regard to some of the comments here, believers in freedom shouldn&#8217;t accept the label &#8220;crazy,&#8221; because that would imply that people&#8217;s belief in aggression via government (the default position in our culture) is actually sane. Institutionalized unjust coercion is the antithesis of reason.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Wes<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-995</guid>
		<description>Poptech: You are assuming a lot of things that many of us don&#039;t. 

Personally, I am not remotely interested in a &quot;revolution,&quot; I have no political strategy, and I&#039;m not trying to &quot;win&quot; anything. That is the vocabulary of the plunder game - precisely what I think should be abandoned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Poptech: You are assuming a lot of things that many of us don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Personally, I am not remotely interested in a &#8220;revolution,&#8221; I have no political strategy, and I&#8217;m not trying to &#8220;win&#8221; anything. That is the vocabulary of the plunder game &#8211; precisely what I think should be abandoned.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Poptech</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-928</link>
		<dc:creator>Poptech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-928</guid>
		<description>The problem with most Ron Paul supporters is they preach a message that only appeals to impressionable teenagers and young adults. &quot;Revolution&quot; implies to many in older generations like one of a socialist take over such as in Cuba. It is the wrong message. The Ron Paul movement suffers from bad associations with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/06/debunking-911-conspiracy-theories.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;911 Truthers&lt;/a&gt; ect... Sticking to a strictly libertarian message of &quot;Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty&quot; is much more appealing. The anarchists have no chance (I have tried to speak with them but their dismissal of others makes it impossible), minimal government libertarians have an appealing message as does Ron Paul. However, Ron Paul&#039;s absolute lack of understanding regarding Israel makes him look clueless on foreign policy. Other areas like pro-legalization of Pot is hypocritical unless you talk of abolishing the FDA and making EVERYTHING legal. The great &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.populartechnology.net/2008/12/anti-marijuana-resource.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;myth is that Pot is a harmless drug&lt;/a&gt; (over 85 scientific studies say otherwise) and it is the weak minded who use it and push it as safe which concerns me more than the drug war. I have no problem with legalization rather propaganda about a mind altering drug that causes Paranoia and Schizophrenia to impressionable kids. Freedom is about making up your own mind and not being led around and buying into everything you hear just because you agree with some of it. I agree with much of what Ron Paul and Libertarians say just not all of it and for logical reasons. You are allowed to disagree and don&#039;t let the anarchists make you think otherwise. As for dealing with people, if they do not agree that is because you either have not presented the evidence to convince them or are using bad marketing tactics. The problem is YOU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The problem with most Ron Paul supporters is they preach a message that only appeals to impressionable teenagers and young adults. &#8220;Revolution&#8221; implies to many in older generations like one of a socialist take over such as in Cuba. It is the wrong message. The Ron Paul movement suffers from bad associations with <a href="http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/06/debunking-911-conspiracy-theories.html" rel="nofollow">911 Truthers</a> ect&#8230; Sticking to a strictly libertarian message of &#8220;Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty&#8221; is much more appealing. The anarchists have no chance (I have tried to speak with them but their dismissal of others makes it impossible), minimal government libertarians have an appealing message as does Ron Paul. However, Ron Paul&#8217;s absolute lack of understanding regarding Israel makes him look clueless on foreign policy. Other areas like pro-legalization of Pot is hypocritical unless you talk of abolishing the FDA and making EVERYTHING legal. The great <a href="http://www.populartechnology.net/2008/12/anti-marijuana-resource.html" rel="nofollow">myth is that Pot is a harmless drug</a> (over 85 scientific studies say otherwise) and it is the weak minded who use it and push it as safe which concerns me more than the drug war. I have no problem with legalization rather propaganda about a mind altering drug that causes Paranoia and Schizophrenia to impressionable kids. Freedom is about making up your own mind and not being led around and buying into everything you hear just because you agree with some of it. I agree with much of what Ron Paul and Libertarians say just not all of it and for logical reasons. You are allowed to disagree and don&#8217;t let the anarchists make you think otherwise. As for dealing with people, if they do not agree that is because you either have not presented the evidence to convince them or are using bad marketing tactics. The problem is YOU.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Brad Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-906</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right that location is important. I live in New Zealand, and people take politics much less seriously here than they seem to in the States. There&#039;s certainly not as much of a culture war, and consequently less raised hackles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think you&#8217;re right that location is important. I live in New Zealand, and people take politics much less seriously here than they seem to in the States. There&#8217;s certainly not as much of a culture war, and consequently less raised hackles.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: sina</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>sina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-905</guid>
		<description>Nick and Brad - thanks, you&#039;ve added some perspective.

Antigone - I&#039;m beggining to understand. I&#039;ve lived in the UK all my life, where politics seems so incredibly unlikely to change (no joking by far the most important issues at the last election was wether Romania and Bulgaria should be exempted from a rule that made immigration from other EU countries slightly easier and whether the top rate of income tax should be raised from 40 to 45%) that it&#039;s basically ok to say whatever. I guess if people actually belive that ideas can seriously change anything they can become more sensitive. 

I&#039;ve heared about the Free State Project - I hope people are more tolerant in NH. I&#039;ve heared at least some liberty values are strong there like party-independance and gun rights. Good luck with that :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Nick and Brad &#8211; thanks, you&#8217;ve added some perspective.</p>
<p>Antigone &#8211; I&#8217;m beggining to understand. I&#8217;ve lived in the UK all my life, where politics seems so incredibly unlikely to change (no joking by far the most important issues at the last election was wether Romania and Bulgaria should be exempted from a rule that made immigration from other EU countries slightly easier and whether the top rate of income tax should be raised from 40 to 45%) that it&#8217;s basically ok to say whatever. I guess if people actually belive that ideas can seriously change anything they can become more sensitive. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heared about the Free State Project &#8211; I hope people are more tolerant in NH. I&#8217;ve heared at least some liberty values are strong there like party-independance and gun rights. Good luck with that <img src='http://www.fr33agents.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> <!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Antigone</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Antigone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-904</guid>
		<description>@Sina - I think geography/sub-culture may have something to do with people&#039;s sensitivity level.  I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

re: fighting - Personally, I don&#039;t &quot;fight&quot;.  In discussion, I  made a grown man cry.  It was beyond weird.  (Well, we *were* discussing the Great Depression, pah-rump-chhhh!) People willing to even discuss anything beyond how great Obama and the Democratic Party are few and far between here. Yes, it is sad. I&#039;ll be moving soon for my own mental health. (Free State Project)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->@Sina &#8211; I think geography/sub-culture may have something to do with people&#8217;s sensitivity level.  I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.  </p>
<p>re: fighting &#8211; Personally, I don&#8217;t &#8220;fight&#8221;.  In discussion, I  made a grown man cry.  It was beyond weird.  (Well, we *were* discussing the Great Depression, pah-rump-chhhh!) People willing to even discuss anything beyond how great Obama and the Democratic Party are few and far between here. Yes, it is sad. I&#8217;ll be moving soon for my own mental health. (Free State Project)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Brad Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-900</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any problems with friends and family. Many people think my views are crazy, and I feel similarly about theirs, but that doesn&#039;t stop me having perfectly normal relationships with them.

Statism is the default position, and most people never feel the need to question it. That leads to some unfortunate results in terms of policy, but I certainly don&#039;t blame any individual for that. Why should anyone be forced to question their biases when they are mostly harmless at individual level? Most people just aren&#039;t interested in politics and will go with the flow. The division of labour is a beautiful, but sometimes unfortunate, thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I don&#8217;t have any problems with friends and family. Many people think my views are crazy, and I feel similarly about theirs, but that doesn&#8217;t stop me having perfectly normal relationships with them.</p>
<p>Statism is the default position, and most people never feel the need to question it. That leads to some unfortunate results in terms of policy, but I certainly don&#8217;t blame any individual for that. Why should anyone be forced to question their biases when they are mostly harmless at individual level? Most people just aren&#8217;t interested in politics and will go with the flow. The division of labour is a beautiful, but sometimes unfortunate, thing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: J Nick Puglia</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>J Nick Puglia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Hi Sina.  It has not been my experience.  My father is a socialist and I see him a LOT.  Sometimes I will make little comments on the news and we will trade barbs for a bit.  That&#039;s about it.

My mother thinks that I have some &quot;crazy ideas&quot; but respects me for them.

My daughter calls herself an anarchist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Sina.  It has not been my experience.  My father is a socialist and I see him a LOT.  Sometimes I will make little comments on the news and we will trade barbs for a bit.  That&#8217;s about it.</p>
<p>My mother thinks that I have some &#8220;crazy ideas&#8221; but respects me for them.</p>
<p>My daughter calls herself an anarchist.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: sina</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>sina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Hi Guys,
This is my first comment on fr33agents so I appologise if I haven&#039;t quite understood this website.

I got to this article from a link on thedailypaul, and I&#039;m really quite shocked by some of these comments.

This is the first time I&#039;ve ever heared of people getting into fights over this sort of thing.

I got interested in the movement about a year ago and since then have discussed these ideas with family, friends and collegues. Some of these people seem about as Statist as is imaginable, whilst others have weaker critiques like &#039;yes but its not realistic.&#039; They find my opinions anything from ammusing to very close to their own opinion. My mother even says &quot;I know you&#039;re right but I can&#039;t quite see how yet.&quot;

So basically I just wanted to ask you guys - is this level of sensitivity normal in you&#039;re own experiences? I&#039;ve never thought twice about the consequences of speaking my mind, everyone I&#039;ve ever known is entirely happy with the fact that many of their aquaintances will seriously disagree with them. I need to ask you all, should I be more cautious? Will there really be people &quot;who become frightened, angry, or worse&quot;?

This is just the most extraordinary set of comments on pretty much anything I&#039;ve read in quite a while. Are you all being serious about not talking to people because they&#039;re not liberty-minded??

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Guys,<br />
This is my first comment on fr33agents so I appologise if I haven&#8217;t quite understood this website.</p>
<p>I got to this article from a link on thedailypaul, and I&#8217;m really quite shocked by some of these comments.</p>
<p>This is the first time I&#8217;ve ever heared of people getting into fights over this sort of thing.</p>
<p>I got interested in the movement about a year ago and since then have discussed these ideas with family, friends and collegues. Some of these people seem about as Statist as is imaginable, whilst others have weaker critiques like &#8216;yes but its not realistic.&#8217; They find my opinions anything from ammusing to very close to their own opinion. My mother even says &#8220;I know you&#8217;re right but I can&#8217;t quite see how yet.&#8221;</p>
<p>So basically I just wanted to ask you guys &#8211; is this level of sensitivity normal in you&#8217;re own experiences? I&#8217;ve never thought twice about the consequences of speaking my mind, everyone I&#8217;ve ever known is entirely happy with the fact that many of their aquaintances will seriously disagree with them. I need to ask you all, should I be more cautious? Will there really be people &#8220;who become frightened, angry, or worse&#8221;?</p>
<p>This is just the most extraordinary set of comments on pretty much anything I&#8217;ve read in quite a while. Are you all being serious about not talking to people because they&#8217;re not liberty-minded??</p>
<p>Thanks<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.fr33agents.com/573/dealing-with-friends-and-family-who-dont-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-894</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fr33agents.com/?p=573#comment-894</guid>
		<description>Hey Paul.  Good to see you here.  I really can&#039;t help you with your concerns, because I do not care what other people think about me.  I am not persuaded that it requires the consent of anyone else for me to be free.  Therefore I am disinterested in converting anyone who is determined to have an authoritarian outlook.

I will say that one of the best ways to clarify the issue for everyone is to strap a gun to your hip or shoulder and wear it openly, all the time.  Being armed is by itself a convincing argument - the final argument of sovereigns.

My brother invited me over to a fireworks display a couple of years back.  He and one of my other brothers sat on his porch chatting and swilling some beer.  Ken said that he believes there must be a war on drugs, even though he smoked pot in college, because otherwise his 9 year old daughter would be exposed to pot in school.  He also said that everyone believes in authority.

Naturally, I made it clear that I don&#039;t agree.  I disagreed with his assertions about second hand smoke, about the drug war preventing pot from being in schools, about the need to arrest two million people a year for non-violent non-crimes, and about authority being universally agreeable.  I also left his home.  I have not returned, and shall not.  We are not on speaking terms, and never will be again.

It is not enough that he change his mind and apologise, a project on which I&#039;m not willing to help.  He would also have to engage in a sincere act of contrition, crawling on his hands and knees over broken glass to the homes of every family destroyed by the imprisonment of any of their members for non-violent non-crimes.  Naturally, my brother won&#039;t change his mind, won&#039;t apologise, and won&#039;t make an act of contrition.  And won&#039;t be forgiven.

Forgiveness, respect, and courtesy, should be earned.  All y&#039;all give it away like sorority girls at a kegger.

One person I&#039;ve rediscovered in my determination not to make light of my own convictions is my mother.  She turns out to be far more anarchistic than I had ever imagined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Paul.  Good to see you here.  I really can&#8217;t help you with your concerns, because I do not care what other people think about me.  I am not persuaded that it requires the consent of anyone else for me to be free.  Therefore I am disinterested in converting anyone who is determined to have an authoritarian outlook.</p>
<p>I will say that one of the best ways to clarify the issue for everyone is to strap a gun to your hip or shoulder and wear it openly, all the time.  Being armed is by itself a convincing argument &#8211; the final argument of sovereigns.</p>
<p>My brother invited me over to a fireworks display a couple of years back.  He and one of my other brothers sat on his porch chatting and swilling some beer.  Ken said that he believes there must be a war on drugs, even though he smoked pot in college, because otherwise his 9 year old daughter would be exposed to pot in school.  He also said that everyone believes in authority.</p>
<p>Naturally, I made it clear that I don&#8217;t agree.  I disagreed with his assertions about second hand smoke, about the drug war preventing pot from being in schools, about the need to arrest two million people a year for non-violent non-crimes, and about authority being universally agreeable.  I also left his home.  I have not returned, and shall not.  We are not on speaking terms, and never will be again.</p>
<p>It is not enough that he change his mind and apologise, a project on which I&#8217;m not willing to help.  He would also have to engage in a sincere act of contrition, crawling on his hands and knees over broken glass to the homes of every family destroyed by the imprisonment of any of their members for non-violent non-crimes.  Naturally, my brother won&#8217;t change his mind, won&#8217;t apologise, and won&#8217;t make an act of contrition.  And won&#8217;t be forgiven.</p>
<p>Forgiveness, respect, and courtesy, should be earned.  All y&#8217;all give it away like sorority girls at a kegger.</p>
<p>One person I&#8217;ve rediscovered in my determination not to make light of my own convictions is my mother.  She turns out to be far more anarchistic than I had ever imagined.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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